Why You Shouldn’t Go to Seminary

Those are some great, challenging thoughts. I think we could look at the cost/benefit of many things Christians do on auto-pilot, seminary is. Great example. I have a lot of seminary friends who are definitely not school-work types and don’t see the utility. They BS their way through papers, don’t read assignments, scrap by some C’s, and just want the degree. People just want a college degree to get a job, but it’s a shame if we just want a seminary degree to be able to say “I went to DTS” like it’s “I went to Stanford.”

Tim,

I have many conversations with people about whether they should go and this is a great overview.

I’m finishing my 2nd sem degree this spring, but didn’t start until I had about 5 years of ministry full-time under my belt and I’m so glad I had that experience before doing. Definitely noticed a difference in how I was engaging and learning in contrast to people who hadn’t really had significant experience. Having real life experiences inform and shape learning is huge for long term retention and stewardship of such an opportunity.

I did both degrees part-time and that was hugely helpful as well. I never stepped out of the ministry world and loved the interplay between ministry and the academic learning side at the same time. The two worlds shaped each other greatly.

I will say that of the several seminaries I’m pretty familiar with, they all have made major strides the last decade in adapting their approaches. A lot of the criticisms I hear about seminary today seem to come from people who are referencing experiences 15-20 years ago. I wondered for a while when I was younger, but now I don’t buy the “seminary is not worth your time” argument that I hear from some. I’m pretty encouraging by the changes many are making to make such an education even more accessible and integrated into ongoing ministry efforts. It’s easier than ever to get such an education and training without disrupting your life which is awesome.

If helpful for anyone, my criteria I used for choosing a seminary program:
1. Pick a program that doesn’t require me to move
2. Pick a program that integrates into what I’m already doing and that is not full-time
3. Pick a program that doesn’t require me to have to commute to a campus multiple days a week and is intensive based (based on my own personal working/learning styles)
4. Pick a program that embodies things I’m passionate about pursuing and learning
5. Pick a program that has some credibility from people I believe are trustworthy and have faculty I would want to learn from

8-9 years later that criteria served me well. They led me to a great situation and allowed me to have the best of both worlds – that is until kids came along and something had to give

Thanks for getting some wisdom and encouragement about seminary opportunities out there for those that are thinking about it!

Tim,

Great resources. Thanks for the food for thought.

My two cents…

Let’s start this training earlier. How many 16 year olds are hearing “You would make a great Architect/Doctor/Teacher…” but never hear “You would make a great Pastor/Missionary/Minister…”? The earlier we start their training for ministry the better equipped they are for making the kind of decisions you are talking about (Is seminary right for me right now?).

I think this requires two shifts in our current system. Students need to break free from the consumer mindset of “this ministry is here for me” and see that they are put there for their church or campus ministry. When that happens, less people will graduate college wondering if ministry is a natural fit for them because they’ve already been living it for years.

I think that shift only happens if we as leaders take the first step. We need to stop inableing this consumer mindset. We need to be calling out young leaders early and often. Each of us can probably look back to someone who gave us a piece of their ministry and pushed us towards where we are today. This also requires more than just providing opportunities. We need to be training them to the love the Word, the World, the Church and to do so with humility. Seminary builds a foundation for these loves that last a lifetime. But it only works if it us coupled with a Gospel centered humility.

- Cole Penick
Part time seminary student
Full time minister

Provocative post title . As for advice I would give a student:

I believe seminary is a great way for the church to pool its resources in order to give quality theological education for those going into long-term vocational Christian service; especially pastoral education. So the first question I would ask them is, “Have you discerned a call to full-time Christian ministry?” I would say this involves an aligning of their desires/passions and gifts/abilities, and needs to be tested by the encouragement and affirmation of the community (preferably their church and Christian family / friends) and Christian leaders. Additionally, I would say it needs to be tested through practical ministry experiences (in other words, they need to have demonstrated that they already have a capacity for personal ministry). Finally, they need to have made a long-term commitment to ministry before I would recommend seminary.

So if it was a graduating senior who had an extensive personal ministry as a student, strong passions, gifts, and commitment to full-time long-term ministry, and the agreement and confirmation of Christian leaders who know them well, I wouldn’t necessarily have reservations about their going to seminary. Personally, though, I would recommend to them a year or two of full-time ministry in order to further test their calling.

Of course, the more experience you have, the more you will probably appreciate and learn from any kind of education, including theological education. But there is a certain body of knowledge that can be extremely important on the front-end of a vocational pursuit, especially for a knowledge-work profession like Christian ministry. And there is a lot of value for ministries in understanding that candidates have been through a certain preparation curriculum. I’m not saying that obtaining a degree makes you a minister; simply that theological education is important because your knowledge/view of God determines how you will do ministry.

On CCC Training:
I highly value the practical ministry training and coaching I received through CCC, especially in the areas of evangelism, discipleship, MPD, and leadership. (I think I learned the most through the natural process of the ministry; although well put-together, the 2-year new staff development material was not prioritized or well-integrated into my ministry). I would qualify the “best 2 years of training in ministry” to mean “in evangelism, discipleship, and leadership” (you’re probably not going to learn much about counseling or working with demographics other than college students, preaching, gaining a thorough knowledge of the Bible, needs based ministry, baptism, communion, and other important pastoral issues.) Despite this, this is solid training in one of the traditionally weakest areas of church leadership. I would also add that doing this as part of a ministry team is an immensely valuable and rewarding aspect of this training.

I highly recommend the short DeYoung article. As for the Thune article – I think his solution is an idealist one that may work in some situations but depends on your philosophy of education. It really is sort of a “homeschool” vs “public school” type of argument. Personally, I would rather be educated in a community of learners where I am being taught by the best of the best in my field and have the opportunity to interact with them. The problems with the traditional model he presents are certainly real, but he doesn’t present or refer to any studies that reinforce his conclusions or suggest the extent to which the problems go; they remain his empirical observations. I would guess that, though these problems certainly exist, they vary widely by both institutionial philosophy and the approach of the individual to their own preparation for ministry.

On the Thune article: I would also just say that your decision should definitely factor in your immediate and long term goals. If you don’t know specifically why you are going to seminary, or don’t know what to expect from the seminary you are going to, you definitely need to re-evaluate.

I agree Will – that would be my primary reason for sending a student the “Why You Shouldn’t Go to Seminary” article from Bob Thune. It keep them from just drifting on Auto-Pilot. It challenges their thinking. No matter what a student does after college they need to have thought it through as a Lordship issue yielded before God.

Very helpful Brian – especially since you have so much experience in this world. I’ve finished the 10 SOL Seminary classes but haven’t gone any further. I have felt the same way about my classes – I’ve “loved the interplay between ministry and the academic learning side at the same time. The two worlds shaped each other greatly.”

That’s a good connection Cole – it starts with helping students get an earlier taste of “real ministry”

Haha – That’s funny – I thought about you when I wrote this post. I’m just link-baiting people like you to click and see what heresy I’m proposing

Good to hear your insights as one who has applied these thoughts – getting two full-time years of ministry before going to seminary.

Yeah – I agree, I’m not sure if Thune’s proposal is the greatest. But I do like the critical thinking and hope that kind of thinking becomes widespread as we think through broader means to equip as many leaders/pastors as possible for the work of ministry. In brainstorming solutions, it takes mediocre ideas to spark better ideas!

And provocative post titles to keep people engaged and thinking about them.

Decided to come back and put in a plug for the 1st program I did via Bethel for specifically the CCC staff who might check this out.

It’s designed be a former staffer (Mark McCloskey) and is based on the leadership model so the common language is extremely helpful for staff to integrate their education into their own contexts. It’s 1/2 traditional seminary stuff like theology and the like, but the other 1/2 is a blend of ministry and organizational leadership.

It’s a 3 year, part-time program designed for people in ministry and I think they now have tracks through St. Paul and San Diego. It kills me that more staff aren’t going through this program (or even know about it) because it integrates with our world so well.

There – I’ve done my alumni duty

Tim-
How many people do you know head towards MBA’s who are on CCC staff? Considering the solid SOL classes and practical experience we get in the field, it seems like our theological training is more than adequate, but I’m wondering how well an MBA in Entrepreneurship (Field Ministries) or International Business, and/or Int’l Relations (WSN) would benefit Staff members. Any thoughts?

Drew

Great thoughts. Here are two thoughts from me: Acts 4 says that the scribes and high priests saw the boldness of Peter and John, saw they were “uneducated, common men” and were astonished. “And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.” NOT that they had been seminary trained. If I understand Cru’s history, Bill Bright began the ministry with the idea to reach and equip college students as lay men and women, those who could carry on the ministry of the church just as well as trained pastors… which is often still true today. Any other thoughts re my little snippet of info?

I was given the same wise advice. I was actually told “come, be trained, do full time ministry and you’ll run circles around the recent seminary grads.” I may not be doing circles, but I’m so thankful I didnt go right out of college. Seminary has always been a “desire of my heart” so it’s fitting that I write this while in FL at New Staff Training about to begin courses that can be transferred towards a seminary degree.

I would encourage a student in the same manner as you Tim. The best player doesn’t practice or memorize plays the first three quarters only to play in the fourth. I feel the same about taking the best laborers in their prime off of the harvest field for 3-4 years.

I definitely lean toward experiential training vs classroom training. I like what Bob Thune proposed in his article – seminary level studying in the midst of doing ministry.

For me, it’s been very beneficial to take seminary classes at Cru’s staff training every 2 years. It’s been just the right balance for me – challenging me to go deeper in my understanding of God and His Word and immediately applying it in teaching/leading staff and students back on campus.

Great thots TMac. Totally agree. I like Thune’s quote:
“Seminary pulls pastors “off the streets” for 3 or 4 years to isolate them in a sterile academic environment. While this might be great for paper-writing, it’s really bad for missional living.”

It’s a little harder to find time to squeeze in seminary classes in a busy ministry schedule but I feel that even a little seminary input is multiplied because it’s filtered through the grid of ministry right now. The 4-6 hours I can pick up in a summer give me enough to feed on for a while.

Since there are recent comments to this post I want to refer people to my comment down below. I also want to suggest that many of these thoughts are coming from the perspective of pursuing Campus Crusade or college campus ministry, and that the decision whether or not to commit to full time seminary education may look differently depending on vocational goal / calling. Since this is a more specialized vocation it may indeed be best to pursue theological training while you are on the field and not relocate. On the other hand, if you are pursuing a calling to pastoral ministry in the local church, you are responsible for a broader range of tasks to a broader demographic of people in a more comprehensive task of long-term discipleship.

Also, the idea that committing to full-time seminary education means being removed from actual ministry and being placed in a “sterile academic environment” is extremely misleading. As a full time seminary student, I can testify that all of us are encouraged to pursue our education in the context of service in the church. For me, this currently involves leading a growing community group through my church and overseeing discipleship and developing leaders among them, as well as being on a follow-up team that helps personally connect new contacts to the church.

There are certainly wrong ways to pursue full-time seminary education, just as there exist pragmatists in full-time campus ministry who are mostly atheological and only take classes because they are required to. So I would say in conclusion before making a decision consider your calling, life situation, and resources, do what seems wise with the motive to glorify God, and whatever you do, don’t separate theology from ministry.

Did Paul not say that all his training in the law ( Pharisee) He counted it as dung ! The Spirit God puts in us will teach us ! I think knowing Christ is the key to ministry and education , the Holy Spirit teaches! I think Paul may have attended the most prestigious school of religion in Israel professor Gamaliel. Just Sayin…..

Randy – thanks for your thoughts.

Just to clarify – I’m not discounting further study (and seminary). My main point is that you should get ministry experience before going to seminary (or else it will merely be theories that you can’t apply).

He didn’t count his training as dung. Just his self-righteous trust in his religious activity to justify himself.

Thanks for your comments Andrew – always good to hear from your perspective since you’re a real, live seminarian. My thoughts are mostly along the lines of encouraging graduates to get experience in ministry first before going to seminary (whether headed into the church or into college ministry).

That’s great to hear your seminary encourages active ministry while in school. Any guess on what percentage of seminary students are doing ministry? Knowing you, I would guess you are one of the more pro-active students.